tv News Nation MSNBC August 22, 2013 11:00am-12:01pm PDT
a voice of reason. today students return to the georgia elementary school where an armed man with an ak-47 and 500 rounds of ammunition entered ready to kill. we are hearing the minute-by-minute conversation between the gunman and the school employee who walked him back from the edge. >> it's gonna be all right, sweetie. i just want you to know that i love you though, okay? nd a i'm proud of you. >> we will play an extended version of that 911 call including parts you may not have heard. a panel including former fbi profiler clint van zandt will join me live for a half an hour interview. plus, bradley manning's sudden revelation he wants to live as a woman. on the road again. president obama kicks off a two-day bus tour on college debt. i'm tamron hall. we'll get to all of that in a minute. first, we're following another
developing story. the justice department is saying now it will go ahead with its efforts to block texas' new voter i.d. law. it was implemented after the supreme court back in june struck down a key provision of the 1965 voting rights act. nbc news justice correspondent pete williams joins us live. it's making headlines. >> it escalates the battle. the center piece is the supreme court's decision striking down the heart of the voting rights act. before the court ruled texas had to get preclearance for any changes on the election law and the federal court said no both to texas changing its voter i.d. law and redrawing its district lines for congressional and legislative districts. after that the justice department is pursuing new courts. we can't stop you under the old voting rights act but we'll use a new section to claim this voter i.d. law is
unconstitutional. a written statement says we will not allow the supreme court's decision to be determined as open season for the states to pursue measures that suppress voting rights. what the court is saying -- or the justice department now is, rather, saying it's unconstitutional on its face and it's also asking the court in texas to use a new section of the voting rights act to say texas is still on purpose and by effect discriminating against minorities, language minorities, racial minorities in texas and under a different section of the voting rights act it's still ought to have to get federal permission before it changes any election laws. it's pursuing two tracks going against the voter i.d. law and upping the ante on redistricting. >> how does this factor in with talking with a county commissioner, judge, dallas county district attorney for a separate action that they are taking in response to texas and this voter i.d. law that's so
controversial? >> there are several lawsuits already pending. they joined one over redistricting, now it's asking to be a full-fledged party in that case so that it can present its own evidence and try to persuade a judge that what it did here doesn't merely have the effect of discriminating but it was intended to make it harder for minorities to vote. the interesting question, tamron, is sort of a knew theory that's emerging, they're saying we're not trying to make it harder for minorities to vote, we're trying to make it harder for democrats to vote. by the way, we're allowed to do that and the courts can't do anything about it. we'll have to see how that plays out. >> thank you very much, pete. greatly appreciate it. we're following developing news out of san diego where several sources are now reporting that mayor bob filner has agreed to step down. according to the nbc affiliate ksnd, that resignation will come tomorrow. as part of a deal reached with city officials reached last night. the 70-year-old former
congressman is facing sexual harassment allegations from at least 17 different women. now to developments from egypt. former president hosni mubarak released from prison. as a crowd of supporters outside that prison cheer, you heard them in the background, mubarak was flown in the helicopter, you see on the screen, a day after an egyptian court ordered his release. he's been in custody for the last 2 1/2 years. however, mubarak is not free. rather, he's taken to a military hospital in a cairo suburb while he will be held under house arrest. nbc's ayman mohyeldin. we have mentioned he is not a freeman. he's still facing these charges. i'm curious if there can be anything done to keep him out of the political fire -- from stoking the political fire that is certainly brewing in cairo. his voice is one that certainly
has support there. >> reporter: he is certainly under house arrest. that lasts so long as this emergency law has been in effect. there has been some talk about shortening that since they seem to have the upper hand on the situation here. there is nothing to prohibit the former president from giving media interviews, from meetings with people, to speaking out openly and freely. he does have the rights of citizenship. that has not been stripped away from him. he will be back in court. but until then, he's effectively a freeman with the exception of his house arrest that requires him to remain in that military hospital. he does have the right if he wanted to to request to be transferred to another situation if his situation improves medically. that will be up to him.
as we understand it from his lawyers, that it was his request to be taken to the military hospital out of all the options he could have gone to. >> ayman mohyeldin live in cairo. quite a bombshell to say the least from bradley manning. the former army private revealing today that he wants to live out the rest of his life as a female. manning, who was sentenced just yesterday to 35 years in prison in a military prison in the biggest classified document leak in nation's history has asked to be called chelsea. in an exclusive interview on "today" his attorney said his client wants to begin hormone therapy immediately. >> as far as the hormone therapy, yes, i'm hoping fort leavenworth will do the right thing and provide that. if fort leavenworth does not, then i am going to do everything in my power to make sure they are forced to. >> they said, quote, inmates are treated equally regardless of
race, rank, ethnicity but added the army does not provide hormone therapy or sex reassignment surgery. coming up, voice of reason. the school clerk who talked down the gunman who police say entered the georgia elementary school with enough ammo to shoot more than half of the children in that building. >> just stay there calm. don't worry about it. i'm gonna sit right here so they'll see that you didn't try to harm me, okay? >> okay. >> okay. it's gonna be all right, sweetheart. >> we will play more portions of this incredible 911 call, perhaps parts that you've not heard already. plus, we're going to talk with former fbi profiler clint van zandt. clint has much experience in hostage negotiations. what does he think about how this woman with no formal training, a school clerk, was able to negotiate the gunman from the edge. plus, live pictures from
former nfl star aaron hernandez day in court just an hour after being indicted in his murder case. we'll find out the latest there. you can join our conversation on twitter. find us @tamronhall. i'm only in my 60's... i've got a nice long life ahead. big plans. so when i found out medicare doesn't pay all my medical expenses, i got a medicare supplement insurance plan. [ male announcer ] if you're eligible for medicare, you may know it only covers about 80% of your part b medical expenses. the rest is up to you.
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we'll have another developing story. murder charges against former new england patriots tight end star aaron hernandez. moments ago hernandez walked into a massachusetts courtroom for his first hearing in a month. just in the last hour hernandez was indicted by a grand jury for first degree murder in the killing of a friend, odin lloyd. he's pleaded not guilty and been held without jail since last june. that arrest came just a week after lloyd's body was found in
an industrial park near hernandez home. if convicted, he could face life behind bars. funeral stars for anderson's mother and brother are being held this weekend as she prepares to bury them. the young girl is speaking out for the first time about her abduction. in her exclusive interview with "today" she discussed her relationship with james dimaggio prior to her abduction. the 16-year-old shared how she's coping with her mother and the loss of her brother as well. >> it just helps me grieve, like posting pictures and to show how i'm feeling and i'm he a teenager. >> i got my nails done to help support my mother and brother. the blue is for ethan, the pink for my mom. my toes say ethan and tina. >> we'll have more on this exclusive interview with her. >> the phone calls weren't phone
calls, they were texts because he was picking me up from cheer camp and he didn't know the address or what -- like where i was so i had to tell him the address and tell him that i was going to be in the gym and not in front of the school just so he knew where to come get me. >> that's 16-year-old hannah anderson describing her final hours of freedom before james dimaggio abducted her from san diego and led authorities on a cross-country chase. dimaggio's violent rampage started at his own home in the san diego neighborhood where he killed her mother christina and her 8-year-old brother ethan then he set fire to his home where they later found letters to hannah written to dimaggio. >> in the letters, they were from like a year ago when me and my mom weren't getting along very well, me and him would talk about how to deal with it and i'd tell him how i felt about it and he'd help me through it.
they weren't anything bad, they were just to help me through tough times. >> as the lone survivor who knows what happened, hannah is now the subject of intense scrutiny. >> anything to say? >> and intense criticism. >> they don't know the story so they have their own opinion about what they hear. >> car wash. >> hannah's friends and neighbors are showing their support raising money to help pay for this weekend's funeral for her mother and brother. >> he had a really big heart and -- >> reporter: hannah struggled as she tried to talk about ethan but says her mother instilled a strong spirit within her that is helping her through tough times. >> she was strong hearted and they tough. she knew how to handle things. >> tonight an amber alert spreading across several states as a growing manhunt. >> reporter: hannah said she
didn't know there was a nationwide search going on for her and had never heard of an amber alert. >> i didn't know what it was but i know it helped people find me and it made them like realize that it's hard to find people out there. but with everyone's support, it can help a lot. >> despite all the law enforcement resources dedicated to the amber alert, it was a chance encounter with four horseback riders in idaho that led to hannah's rescue from a place called the river of no return. >> i'd like to say thank you because without them i probably wouldn't be here right now. >> reporter: after the riders notified authorities, it was only matter of hours before a tactical team confronted dimaggio killing him in a shootout. >> i want to thank the horse men and the amber alert and the sheriff and the fbi with everyone that put in their time to find me and my dad and my friends and my family and just
all my supporters that helped spread the word and helped the news get out there fast. >> reporter: today hannah is trying to get back to her life as a daughter, a dancer, a high school student and leave her past and her critics behind. >> you are who you are. i mean, you shouldn't let people change that. and you have your own opinion on yourself and other people's opinions shouldn't matter. >> that was nbc's kate snow reporting. coming up, students are back in their school for the first time since a gunman fired an ak-47. this as some wonder whether the 911 call from the school clerk will reignite the gun debate. >> let me ask you this, ma'am. he didn't hit anybody, he just shot outside the door. if i walk out there with him, if i walk out there with him, so they won't shoot him or anything like that? he wants to give himself up, is that okay, they won't shoot him?
>> we'll have more of that 911 call. we're going to play at least 11 minutes of this incredible call, but first the soldier on trial for the fort hood shooting rampage declined to present a closing argument today. yesterday he rented his case without presenting a single witness. he's accused of killing 13 people at a texas military base. if convicted, he could face the death penalty. it kills germs so you heal four days faster. neosporin. use with band-aid brand bandages. ♪ now you can give yourself a kick in the rear! v8 v-fusion plus energy. natural energy from green tea plus fruits and veggies. need a little kick? ooh! could've had a v8. in the juice aisle.
stouffer's. made with care for you or your family. yeah? then how'd i get this... [ voice of dennis ] ...safe driving bonus check? every six months without an accident, allstate sends a check. silence. are you in good hands? right now president obama is on his bus tour headed to syracuse new york where he started the two-day tour aimed at the high cost of college. at the university of buffalo the president announced a set of ambitious proposals to make college more affordable. those proposals include a new government rating system for colleges that would judge schools affordability and perform manages and ultimately determine how federal aid is distributed. >> at a time when a higher
education has never been more important or more expensive, too many students are facing a choice that they should never have to make, either they say no to college and pay the price for not getting a degree, and that's a price that lasts a lifetime, or you do what it takes to go to college but then you run the risk that you want won't be able to pay it off. it's an economic imperative. >> kristen welker is traveling with the president in motion. obviously this fits into the president a president's middle class. this sounds quite complex and ambitious. when would this get done? >> reporter: well, it is complex, you're absolutely right, tamron. the idea is for the ratings part of the program to get put in
effect by 2015 and to link that by federal financial aid by 2018. that would require congressional approval and that, of course, gets very tricky. in terms of what the president actually mapped out, he said the colleges should be rated on a number of factors including tuition, graduation rates, debt, projection of future earnings for graduates. so those are some of the sort of bases for the rating system. the president is really challenging college systems to make education more affordable. he talked about the need to make it easier for students to pay back their loans. he's going to expand a program that he's put into place which would cap their payments on 10% of their earnings. we're getting reaction, john clyne who is the chairman for the house committee on education said he welcomes the president's plan but said he has concerns
because this could squash innovation. senator marco rubio rejected it outright and said this is the wrong way to lower costs for education. already you're getting some opposition. it's hard to see how it passes through congress. more broadly this trip was part of a tour president obama has been taking over the past several weeks. he's been crisscrossing the country and talking about his visions for the fiscal future of the country including housing, health care. part of this is to set the stage for the budget battles they'll have which will revolve around the debt ceiling and the budget and all of these issues are going to be at the forefront. we're getting a sense of things to come once congress is back in session in september. tamron, right now we are on our way to syracuse, the president's second stop. we just passed rochester where the president sat down and met with some students there to talk more about this theme of college
affordability. >> by the way, tomorrow the president will hold a town hall meeting at the state university of new york making college more affordable. that event is expected to get underway around 12:45 eastern time. msnbc will carry it live. coming up, more of the 911 call showing how a school clerk was able to talk a gunman who told her he was ready to die off the edge. are there lessons to be learned from this near tragedy? >> you want me to try? i can help you. do you want to talk to them? do you want me to talk to them? by about $110 a month. roll the dice. care act was passed, company to go down by about $60 a month. little guy rebecca: the law works.
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happened in the frightening minutes after police went in and captured a 20-year-old named michael hill. he entered that school with 500 rounds of ammunition. gabe gutierrez joins us. we'll play an extended version of this 911 call so people can hear. today there we see a lot of activity. what are you hearing from parents and maybe even some of the kids? >> reporter: well, tamron, yeah, there has been a lot of activity. the school went into session around 7:00 this morning. we talked to parents around 7:00 this morning. school is just dismissing. we're waiting to hear reaction. several parents wanted to thank this bookkeeper. they were amazed she was so calm, cool and collected and was able to talk down this gunman. one woman we talked to, susan hughes, she brought her 10-year-old son. he was in the fifth grade. she was reluctant to drop him off at school because of all they had been through.
she had to deal with some tough questions from her son yesterday. she told us about some of those conversations. here's what she has to say. >> we had to get under the table and i think they told him it was a drill but then they said this is an actual emergency and to get under the table until they were led outside. he was terrified. he had butterflies in his stomach. he woke up. he had a nightmare. he said that he thought he was going to be blown up and that the shooter was going to come back and get him. >> really just something difficult to hear, a 10-year-old saying he feared the attacker. her son did not go to class yesterday. students here were actually moved to a high school here and this is the first day they've been back at school. very emotional day here.
the principal wants to put them back at ease. >> what are authorities saying how this 20-year-old man with a history of mental illness according to his family, he has a history of mental illness, how he was able to get a gun? >> well, the lawyer does -- his lawyer says that this man did have a long history of mental health issues. police aren't saying right now exact will you how he got it. the investigation is skill ongoing. somehow he may have gotten the gun from another person. we're not certain. that is a huge question. somebody who had been in trouble with the law, been arrested earlier this year by making a terroristic threat. there are a lot of questions how he was able to get the ak-47. the police are still looking into that. >> talk to me a little bit about the security in place at the
school. that is the second question. we heard reports that he may have been able to slip in behind another individual. what is the security like at the elementary school. >> when you go into the elementary school there is a buzzer that you have to get buzzed in. as you mentioned, the theory is that he got into the school by following somebody, sneaking in behind someone that had access to the building. right now school administrators are reviewing their policy. we talked to the principal this morning. there is increased security at the school to kind of put people's minds at ease. again, very emotional day for the students here. the parents we talked to say they feel very safe. the school has a reputation for being very safe when it comes to students. tamron, back to you. >> gabe, thank you very much. let me bring in former fbi profiler and hostage profiler, clint van zandt. we want your insight. we're going to play an extended version of the 911 call that was
made by antoinette who came into direct contact with michael hill when he entered the school. it was a 25-minute phone call which, you know, it's an amazing perspective. that is an eternity, a stranger, who was heavily armed and clearly mentally unstable. what is your first impression on what happened there and how she was able to talk this man down? >> well, you know, this is an elementary school, tamron. they give gold stars to children who do good. this is a woman who deserves a gold star. she could have done what so many people do, run, escape when she had the opportunity, hide under her desk. she rose to the occasion just like an olympic athlete. she did something she never practiced before. she saved the lives of could be
almost everybody in that school by being cool, calm, collected and just using her good native common sense. as an fbi hostage negotiator, i've listened to this tape. i would give her high fives. she ought to be lecturing. >> there have been people who said she deserves a visit to the white house. let me pause here for a second and allow our audience to hear a great portion of this 25 minute conversation if you will that happened between the 911 operator and an would i net. you hear the suck back in the background. >> number 4, you copy. everything down. he's going to get on the floor so hold on. let us get everything together. he's getting it altogether. tell me when you ready and then i tell him to come on in. okay. he wants to drink his bottled water. go ahead, get it together.
okay. did you want me to call somebody and talk to somebody for you? okay. we not going to hate you, baby. good thing you giving up. we not going to hate you. >> ma'am, you're doing a great job. >> so let's do it before the helicopters and stuff like that come. they're here. you hear them? okay. so you want to go ahead? want me to tell them to come on in now? okay. he's getting everything out of his pockets, ma'am. >> okay. >> okay. he said the gun may come back and say it's stolen. it's not. he knows the whole story about the gun. he'll let you all know that. >> okay. >> do y'all want him to take his belt off? >> that's fine. just take all his weapons off. >> she said, that's fine, take all your weapons off. he said he don't have no more weapons. >> okay. >> okay. so you going -- okay. he on the ground now with his hands behind the back. tell the officers don't come in shooting anything so they can
come often in and i'll buzz them in. >> okay. >> so hold on. just sit right there. i'm going to buzz them in so you'll know when they're coming, okay? so just stay there calm. i'll sit right there so they'll see you not trying to harm me, okay? >> okay. >> okay. >> it's going to be all right, sweetie. i just want you to know that i love you, though, okay, and i'm proud of you. that's a good thing you did giving up and don't worry about it. we all go through something in life. no, you don't want that. you going to be okay. i thought the same thing. you know, i tried to commit suicide last year after my husband left me, but look at me now. i'm still working and everything is okay. your name is michael what? michael hill?
the weather in the harbor? the people came around planted the gun oh, the drum from inner harbor? oh, okay so you came with the kids that played the drum from the inner harbor? oerksz for red ribbon week. you were in there with them. oh, how awesome. so that means -- so that means i've seen you before then. oh, okay. yeah, i play them drums and stuff real good. okay. he said that they can come on in now. he needs to go to the hospital. >> okay. >> ain't going to have any weapons on him or anything like that. he's laying on the floor and he doesn't have any weapons and he's got everything out of his pockets. there's no -- only thing he has on him is his belt. everything is out of his pockets. everything is sitting here on the counter so all we need to
do, they can come in and i'm going to buzz them in so they know he's here and they can come in and get him and take him to the hospital. >> okay. one moment. >> okay. yes, she says she's going to let them know. she's talking to them and let them know to come on in and take you to the hospital, okay? no, you stay right there. you fine. she said you want him to go out there with his hands up or stay right there? >> stay right where he is. >> she said stay right there where you are. >> he wants to know if he can get some of his water right quick? yes, michael. you said michael hill, right? guess what, michael? my last name is hill, too. you know, my mom was a hill. he said what are y'all waiting for? what's taking them so long to come on? >> okay. one moment. >> she said she's getting to them now. they're coming.
they're coming. so just hold on, michael. go ahead and lay down. go ahead and lay down. don't put your -- okay. you just got your phone? okay. that's fine. tell them to come on. come on. okay. he just got his phone. that's all he got is his phone. >> do not move. >> just him. >> okay. >> it's just him. >> hello? >> i tell ya something, baby, i've never been so scared. >> me either, but you did great. >> oh, jesus. >> you did great. >> again, that is a portion of the 25-minute 911 call made by that school clerk. no training in hostage negotiations. no preparation for what she faced in that office. i'm going to spring back. clint van zandt as well as the top school safety experts to discuss whether or not this will
reignite the debate over gun control. many people have referenced wayne lapierre's infamous remarks about what stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. we'll explore this and play you more of that 911 call next. we'll be right back. hero: if you had a chance to go anywhere in the world, but you had to leave right now, would you go? man: 'oh i can't go tonight' woman: 'i can't.' hero : that's what expedia asked me. host: book the flight but you have to go right now. hero: (laughs) and i just go? this is for real right? this is for real? i always said one day i'd go to china,
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more now on tuesday's shooting at the mcnair discovery center and the brave bookkeeper who prevented tragedy. here's more of antoinette tuff's call. he says to tell them to back off, he doesn't want the kids, he wants the police so back off. what else, sir? he said he don't care if he die, he don't got nothing to live for. he says he's not mentally stable. >> okay. stay on the line with me, okay? put the phone down if you have to but don't put it on hold so i
can't hear. >> okay. can you tell me where you are? >> in the front office with him. >> okay. >> she said -- he said send in one of your radios with an unarmed officer. >> okay. >> she said okay. she's getting ready to tell them. or some way that he can talk to the police. he said but if they come armed he's going to start shooting again. >> okay. >> only one officer. >> okay. >> she said -- he said if you have to go ahead and evacuate them homes right there in front of the building. >> okay. okay. ask him if he's willing to give his name. >> she said are you willing to give your name? >> he said, no. >> okay.
>> he said, no. he knows that if he gives his name he's going away for a long time. he said he knows he's going away for a long time, he's on probation. tell them to stand down now. tell them to stand down now, he said. >> okay. i'm giving instructions. >> she said she's giving instructions. he said he should just shoot himself. he said -- he said call the probation office in dekalb county and let them know what's going on. >> okay. >> who are we asking for? >> she said who is she asking for? >> he said he thinks his officer is scott. >> okay.
>> okay. you want me to let them -- let her get by? >> emergency? >> yes. >> hello? >> yes. yes, i'm here. >> do you want me to tell her to let her come, sir? she sound like she loves you a lot. >> you're on the phone with a relative? >> yes. what did you say, sir? she -- >> he said he should have just went to the mental hospital instead of doing this because he's not on his medication. >> okay. >> do you -- do you want me to try -- i can help you. do you want to talk to them? do you want me to talk to them and try to -- okay. let me talk to them and let's see if we can work it out so you
don't have to go away with them for a long time. no, it does matter. i can let them know that you have not tried to harm me or do anything with me or anything. if you want to -- but that doesn't make any difference. you didn't hit anybody. okay. let me ask you this, ma'am. he didn't hit anybody, he just shot outside the door. if i walk out there with him -- if i walk out there with him so they won't shoot him or anything like that, he wants to give his self up, is that okay? they won't shoot him? >> yes, ma'am. >> he just wants to go to the hospital. >> okay. >> she said -- hold on one moment. >> she said hold on, we going to -- she going to talk to the police officer and i go out there with you. don't feel bad, baby. my husband just left me after 33 years. but -- yes, you do. i mean, i'm sitting here talking to you about it.
i got a son that's multi-disabled. let me talk to them. let him know that i'm going with you. you want me to talk to her? no, you didn't, baby. listen, it's all going to be well. they just going to talk to the police. okay. okay. okay. hold on. hold on a second, okay? >> uh-huh. don't hang up the phone. >> okay. he wants me to go to the intercom so hold on for me. >> okay. so wait a minute. so can you talk to the police and let them know i'm going to walk out there with him and he's going to give himself up. >> okay. i am. >> okay. you let me know what we need to do. he wants me to go on the intercom and let everybody know that he's sorry, okay? >> joining me on the studio, gregory thomas, former director
of the department of education. ceo of the allen thomas security group. also with us, psychologist, robin smith. and clint van zandt, former fbi director and detective. the fact that this woman was able to keep her composure. i've heard so many people say, what would i do? how would i handle that? is her response just something internal? can that be taught? >> well, she did all the things we try to teach negotiators, tamron. she was a great go-between. she identified with the aggressor. she offered help. she minimized what he had done. she helped develop a surrender ritual. she told him what to expect and told the police what to expect. she offered love. said she was proud of him. she offered him a positive future. every one of those things is something that we spend weeks teaching negotiators and this lady did it intuitively, god
bless her. >> you're absolutely right. god bless her. gregory, my question and the reason i ask, that's something that should be taught. we talk so much about whether security should be armed, but what should we do to prepare teachers for the real world that we live in. security was in place there. should teachers be armed with crisis -- i don't even know the proper term. crisis orientation to deal with these things? >> sure, they should. we try to teach schools to drill all the time, fire drills, lockdown drills to prepare you for the event. you know what to do so in her case as clint mentioned, she was the extreme person that she needed to be more motherly. being around kids, she knew how to talk to kids under distress. it's important to do these drills while under stress. >> but we do and i remember living in texas, we had tornado drills. you had to get under your desk and all other things.
to your point, are teachers given crisis management drills, if you will? are they taken into seminars and told, we don't want to have to deal with something like this. this was a report of a 5-year-old firing a gun in school. thankfully no one was injured. that's our reality. >> it is. i would hope after this incident and they do an action report, they'll look at all the lessons learn. she was a model of a great temperament for this issue. many people that answer the phone, for example, when it's bomb threats, they may panic. stress them enough in drilling so they're not going through a matter of fact way. >> is this the necessary next step, the sadness next step? >> unfortunately. schools aren't built for this. luckily in this case he was willing to give up but many times it's going to be lob june
grills. so that way if he were to make his way throughout the school, god for 3wbid, they would have been on lockdown. >> there are 800 students that attend school there and they had to get them out of there. kate snow said they've been contacted from around the country and they wondered how they were able to so efficiently handle that number of kids. they asked how do you prevent school safety. 6% both, 2%, neither. this issue of mental health service, that has gone hand in hand with the conversation on gun legislation and what needs to be next. here we have this example of a man, according to his attorney, according to his family, had a history of mental illness. he was charged back in march where he threatened the life of his own brother on facebook but
here's a man with mental health issues who was able to obtain a weapon and we don't know how at this point. >> you know, one of the things, tamron, that's so important in all of this is several things. mrs. tuff is just amazing. don't we all need that wise mother figure, someone when we've gone astray, done something wrong, are afraid can incompetent courage and remind us and reground us and not shame us in the midst of a mess so when we think about the stigma, we're having to come to terms with the more that we run from the boogie man, if you will, the faster and the bigger the boogie man is becoming.
i think this is a powerful example of someone who was in trouble long before this event happened at this elementary school and yet again we dropped the ball. we dropped the ball. the issue of somebody being sick, if somebody is in trouble, you can't expect that person, this young man is on the ground talking to miss tuff, you know really pleading in some ways that he not be killed, not be hurt, saying that he's sorry, but if we as -- in this country had done our job to get people the help they need when they need it before they're in this crisis, this would not have happened. >> robin, thank you for your time, gregory as well and clint van zandt. the gut check on this topic right after a quick break. hey linda!
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